speculation is going on there at the scene. at about 12:20 deputies that were actively working the search for christopher dorner received a report on clubview drive from the reporting party said that their vehicle had been stolen from their home. they also reported that the subject who stole their vehicle matched the description of christopher dorner. immediately all available law enforcement on the mountain and other units from down the hill began to surround the area. our air units were up. they located the vehicle. the suspect that was driving the vehicle abandoned the vehicle and fled on foot into the forest. he barricaded himself in a cabin. at that time, there was an exchange of gunfire between the law enforcement personnel outside of the cabin and the subject inside.

during that gunfight, a deputy sheriff -- two deputy sheriffs were shot. one of them died after being taken to loma linda. the second deputy is currently in surgery and is expected to survive. >> were these dueputies on routine patrol? >> the deputies that were shot were a part of the search efforts to find dorner. the second deputy is in surgery. >> the house is burning quite significantly. it doesn't seem that anybody could survive in there. how soon before they go in and confirm whether he is in there or -- >> i don't know how soon that will be. probably when it's safe to do so. >> is it an abandoned cabin or an occupied cabin? >> they believe, i think, that it was a rental and there was no one there. >> how sure can you be? how secure is the area around that house? how well were your helicopters watching the area while he was in there and this was playing

out? how sure are you -- >> i can't answer that right now. unc >> you can't say who started the blaze? >> no, i don't know. i found out just when i arrived that the cabin was on fire. >> just to confirm, there's been no further gunfire from the home since that fire broke out? >> it's my understanding that since the fire began at the cabin, there has been no other gunfire. >> what can you tell the residents of big bear and the surrounding area as the sun is beginning to set, is this guy still on the loose? >> i can't answer that for you. >> but it's a possibility? >> what do you want me to do? >> cindy, thank you. >> thank you, cindy. >> the roads are going to stay clo closed i would say for -- >> okay. press conference is ending with san bernardino local authorities. the word is basically the most we know right now is what you see. for the last several hours, police have had a coordinated response between local, state

and federal authorities. they believe in the cabin that you see engulfed in flames was a suspect named christopher dorner. that's not been confirmed even in the most recent press conference. they believe it because people who had a pickup truck stolen earlier in the day identified the man who was stealing the vehicle as christopher dorner. hes was pursued into this cabin that is now on fire. there was gunfire between two sheriff's deputies, one who ended up losing his life. the other we're told is going to be okay. from that point on, all we know is what you see. we'll continue our coverage. i'll hand it now to anderson cooper. anderson? chris, thanks very much. a lot to talk about, obviously, the story is what is happening right now in the woods in big bear. there you see the fire that has been raging now probably for at least half an hour or so. joining me on the phone is kyle

martin who is the son of the woman who owns the cabin where this tactical operation is under way. kyle, as you see these -- i assume you're watching these images of this cabin up in flames. how big a cabin is this? >> it's pretty big. actually more than one cabin. it's actually got five smaller cabins, and my mother rents them out. >> i understand that you were watching tv or your mother was watching tv when she saw her cabin basically surrounded by authorities. what happened? >> i wasn't with her. i was actually talking to my sister. she was with my mother. and she texted me and said, oh, the cops had actually searched the cabin about two days ago. and then she texted, oh, that looks like our road. mom says that's our road. then it ended up being our cabin. >> now, this cabin, i understand, did not have -- according to your mother from an earlier report, did not have phone, did not have television,

did not have internet, is that correct? >> yes, that's correct. it has in the past, but yeah. >> does it have electricity? >> yeah. >> was there anybody in the cabin? was it being rented? >> no. no, there was no one there. there shouldn't be anyone there. >> you said the cabin was searched about two days ago? >> i think it was, yeah, about two days ago. i guess they just kind of looked around. it wasn't a real thorough search, from what i hear. obviously, i wasn't there. >> i assume you've been to this cabin. when you see what's happening right now, what is going through your mind? >> yeah, well, i actually just got home. i've been hearing about it on the radio in the car, then when i got home, we turned on the tv. and you can actually see it burning, kind of a shock. whoa, memories are burning right there. >> was there anything in the cabin that could have contributed to a fire, to your knowledge, ammunition, firearms,

propane, anything? >> i know it was run by propane. so -- but i believe the propane was off. no ammunition or firearms that i know of. it also has a basement, though. >> how big a basement? >> probably about 800 square foot. >> and it's a basement you can actually stand up in? is it a crawl space? how big is it? >> no, there's stairs that lead down to them, once you're down there, it's ten feet high, eight feet high. >> kyle, i appreciate talking to you. i know it's got to be surreal. if you could just stay with us on the phone, i want to bring in fbi assistant tom fuentes. what goes through your mind in terms of where this operation may be? >> i have the same question everybody else does, where's the body? is he in there or is he out?

did they go in and search it including the basement out to make sure there's nobody el in there that we don't know about that's innocent. if they did find people inside there before the fire -- was the fire already so great that they couldn't deal with bodies inside there? we have another question, what if there was nobody inside there? i think these are all -- the spokesperson for the sheriff's department didn't have or didn't want to be saying all of the details of what's coming from the scene. they may just not know for sure. so at this point, i think it appears that they're going to wait for this thing to burn down and get to a point where they feel it's safe to go in and start doing the examination of the crime scene. >> the fact that they are not fighting the fire does indicate a certain level of uncertainty about the situation or a concern about the situation? >> yes, i think it does. i think initially you wouldn't necessarily have fire department

assets brought too close to the scene just out of fear that if he had a high powered rifle like a .50 caliber gun, anybody in a fire truck would not be safe. it wouldn't be able to withstand the shots from as large of a bullet as .50 caliber. they may have a question about safety. as the person you just talked to mentioned, if there's propane, if there's other material in there that could still explode, they're going to be reluctant to get anybody too close to that. >> the fact that there's a basement in this cabin, which is new information i hadn't heard previously, i guess that makes it all the more difficult for personnel when they're trying to get -- i mean, if they're putting tear gas in, they want to make sure they're getting the basement as well. >> yes, they'll have to get in that basement. but as was mentioned, now that we've learned that that cabin was previously searched in the last couple of days, that would give you a strong indication that he probably was not in a

position to preposition weaponry and explosive devices and other things inially large quantity if that cabin was already searched with negative results about the sheriff's department. so from the sounds of it, it appear that when he fled the vehicle, he didn't have a lot to take with him. so apparently maybe one or two firearms and maybe not a lot of other equipment so that he could run into the woods and he came across this cabin. so we don't know if he knew of the existence of this cabin or not since it's already been searched within the last few days with no weapons found. >> it would also seem to be more of a target of opportunity given the fact that he was intercepted about 27 miles or so from where this vehicle was originally stolen. so if he's basically intercepted, engages in a shoot-out with fish and wildlife, which is what authorities say happen, it seems like he basically just kind of got to first cabin or the closest cabin he could. this cabin near highway 38 which

is the same road that the shoot-out occurred on, which again is important because the indication being that if there was nobody staying in this cabin, according to kyle, who his mom owns this cabin, unless the suspect actually grabbed somebody en route to the cabin, there was nobody there when he burst into the door. >> right. but the fact that the cabin was supposed to be unoccupied doesn't mean that it was either. just as you mentioned he could have brought someone with him that he grabbed along the way or there could be other people out backpacking or something and got cold and decided to seek shelter in, you know, whatever cabin they could find and all of a sudden when he storms into that cabin there's other people in there that no one had any clue were there. so you have to consider all these possibilities in an operation like this, that someone could have been in that cabin that didn't really belong there, trespassing, but mainly because they were seeking shelter or some other reason to be in there. >> yeah, and again, early reports often turn out to be

false. we want to be very careful about what we're saying and also not speculating too much. tom, stick around with us. a former investigator joins us as we continue to watch the images of this cabin basically in flames. chris, you and i have talked a lot over the last several days about this suspect, about what we know about him. did you have any doubt that this is how it would end, in some degree? >> i had hoped that it would end differently without any further bloodshed or loss of life, but mr. dorner made it abundantly clear in his statements that it was a foregone conclusion that he -- that he would take more lives or try to, and that he planned on dying somehow in the end of it. you know, there's still hope that maybe he'll surrender or something like that and the door's always open for that, clearly. enough is enough as the

commander said. but it looks like there's a strong possibility that it will end here and not in a good way for mr. dorner. >> and we still have been getting kind of early reports about the sequence of events over these last several hours. you know about the stolen vehicle. you know according to "the l.a. times" that he held a couple hostage in another cabin elsewhere for several days, stealing a vehicle, then the interception with fish and wildlife. an exchange of gunfire. no deputies were injured in that. then the retreat to this cabin where a suspect fired at deputy hitting two deputies, one firing upon a deputy from inside the cabin, then, according to at least one source, "the l.a. times," trying to exit the rear of the cabin, letting off a smoke grenade, shooting another deputy, then fleeing back inside the cabin. one of those deputies has died.

bryan todd is hearing new information about the sequence of events. what have you learned? >> i just spoke with chief kirk ellington of the u.s. marshal's service. he's a district chief out in california. he just told me that at one point during the standoff, the suspect tried to escape. he said he tried to escape out the back. i'm not exactly sure where the back is in relation to some of the pictures we have been seeing, but he was pushed back inside. not clear how he was pushed back inside. i asked him when that occurred during the sequence, he said about the time the fire started. he also -- i asked him about any weapons that he had, what kind of weapons. they're not sure what he had in there. it was his understanding at that time when i just spoke to him that there were no hostages. but that's his understanding at time. i don't think that's been confirmed yet by anyone at this point. he did tell me at one point the suspect tried to escape out the back and was pushed back inside.

>> kyle martin, whose mom own the cabin, i think is still with us on the phone. when you hear that he attempted to leave through the rear of the cabin, i'm not sure what image you're looking at on television, but is that the front of the cabin, the rear of the cabin, what are we seeing? >> right there from what i'm watching -- i'm watching cnn. that looks like the front of the cabin. that looks directly down so the main road. the barn, there's also a barn right to the left of it that's kind of obscured by the trees. >> so you're saying there's a number of cabins on this property. this is kind of the main cabin. and they're rented out? traditional sne. >> yeah, just rented out over the wintertime, people go up there and stay. that's another thing when they said he was trying to escape through the back. if he directly runs up -- on the tv anyway -- there's other small cabins in there he can take refuge. >> that was going to be my next question. if he had left through the rear,

how big a property is this besides the other cabins on the property? are there other houses nearby? >> on the property, yeah, there's six and there's about ten acres of the property itself. other nearby cabins of other people are a little ways away. you know, like a mile away or so. >> right. kyle, stand by if you can. chris, i'm just wondering as you have watched this play out, what has been going through your mind? what are your thoughts? >> that's ultimately the indicator if law enforcement can talk him out. you can't negotiate a gunfight or a riot. if he takes the time to stop shooting to communicate, you find out whether he loves himself enough to try to survive to carry on his cause. just as we're hearing this, the one thing in a strange sort of way imencouraged about the report of him trying to escape out the back doesn't sound like it includes him trying to use a

human shield. so that tends to indicate more that he might have been alone in the cabin, which, of course, would be very good news. >> the fact, chris, that authorities went in or at least lobbed in tear gas, whether or not they actually entered the cabin itself, would that also lead you to believe that there were not hostages inside? >> well, that in and of itself, they may have done that for a variety of reasons. they may have been trying to protect someone that may or may not have been inside. it may have been dictated by the attack from the inside towards them. and they may have been doing that to suppress the threat that he presented to law enforcement at the time. that's a little harder to speculate on other than the fact that he didn't use a human shield. >> i'm also wondering just given the tactics that he's accused of using over the last several days, it seems like in a number of confrontations he's had with law enforcement, whether it was in riverside where he's alleged

to have killed one officer, whether it was lapd or the san bernardino sheriffs or the fish and wildlife who he engaged in a firefight with earlier today, it seems like something of an offensive action on his part. he doesn't seem to be much on the defense. he seems to be taking the fight to them. >> in many cases, yeah, that's absolutely true. in the interim, he's been on the run, trying to protect himself. keep himself alive. a tleemd amount of wariness, he knows they're tactically very capable. but he's been on the offense most of the time. >> former lapd psychologist kris mohandie. we've talked about this a number of times on this program. we had the idea perhaps he was in a cabin somewhere, had broken into somebody's cabin, whether he was holding hostages or not but was maybe watching

television, the coverage of this. you tried to make the point to him to get his message across, to get his grievance paid attention to, to surrender. it clearly doesn't seem he's taken that route. >> no. but you have to offer it. you have to always hold out the hope and extend the branch that can lead to a nonviolent resolution. ultimately at the end of the day, you can do all these things and it's the suspect that makes up his mind about whether or not he want to accept that or not. this was a very rigid man, very invested in his cause, unbending, moralistic in his own way and, unfortunately, it appears that he's chosen to end this in a violent way. >> james usara is also joining us on the phone. he met dorner before. they were classmates.

i'm wondering your thoughts on seeing what appear to be some or the of, i don't know if resolution is the correct word, but your thoughts the on this man that you once knew. >> sure. i find myself going through a bit of an emotional roller coaster. this person who was a friend and for whom i had a great deal of respect obviously has found himself having a pretty serious problem and taking actions that are horrible. on some level at this point it sounds like things have come to a close. you say not much of a resolution, but hopefully the manhunt will be over and no further violence will be perpetrated. again from my standpoint, there's a bit of a human element to this where i see pictures of chris on tv and he's a person who i considered a friend. and to know that he's alleged to

have committed these pretty heinous acts, it's confusing and i just wish there was something in hindsight that i could have done to try and prevent it or to even help bring the situation as it is to a close in a better way. but until it is, it's just a surreal experience having been sort of dragged into this. >> yeah. i can't even imagine, frankly. i just want to give all of our viewers an update of where we are, and there's a lot we don't know at this hour. most importantly, we do not know where christopher dorner is, if he's inside that cabin still, alive, dead, wounded. we don't know if he's been taken out by law enforcement, actually removed from that cabin, wounded, alive or dead. we don't know. we also don't know if he's tried to escape the cabin and maybe somewhere else on the surrounding grounds. you heard from kyle whose mom own this cabin, kyle martin, who

said this is a ten-acre property, there's a number of cabins on it. we have been watching this. i know the image is beginning to get somewhat cloudy. i don't know if it's from the smoke from this fire, but for an hour we've been watching smoke billow from this cabin. we've seen fire as well. at times it seemed to consume much of the cabin or the front of the cabin that we've been able to see. no efforts seem to be made to putting it out. you can read into that what you will. a local cbs reporter carter evans was actually describing the situation by cell phone when the initial gunfight broke out. now, this initial gunfight, we believe this gunfight was by the road block that the fish and wildlife deputies exchanged gunfire with this suspect while the suspect was in a vehicle. there's an early report, according to "the l.a. times" saying that the suspect actually crashed this white pickup truck

that he was driving that he allegedly stolen, then opened up fire. gunfire was exchanged with the deputies from fish and wildlife. but this local reporter was on the scene. you actually hear -- it's confusing what you're going to hear, but you certainly hear gunfire in the background. a lot of people kind of yelling. let's listen in. >> this is a very -- we're standing here. we don't want to get caught in the crossfire ourself. >> hey, you. come here! >> me? >> you, come here. [ gunfire ] >> hey! get the -- out of here!

[ gunfire ] >> there you heard the somewhat confusing exchange of gunfire that we believe that was the

exchange of gunfire around the road block. miguel marquez was at the scene. he joins me now. assuming you've not heard any new information in the last ten minutes or so, take a step back and walk me through the timeline and sequence of events that we know about that occurred several hour ago up to now. >> what officials here have just announced that around 12:30, 1:00 today pacific time they got a call from individuals who had been tied up. a car was stolen from there. a white pickup truck. they said the person who stole it matched the description of christopher dorner. a short time later, two officials from -- two wardens from game and fish, amazingly enough, who were helping san bernardino county sheriff's office came in contact with mr. dorner. there were shots fired. neither was injured. mr. dorner went on foot. he ended up in this cabin holed up there when law enforcement deputies from san bernardino county sheriff's office arrived

he opened fire on them. one of them was killed. the other one was injured badly. he's in surgery right now. but is expected to be okay. and now this fire about two hours ago now i understood law enforcement said they were going to go in with gas. it is not clear what set off that fire, but they clearly believe that he had no hostages in that building, in that cabin. he had tried to escape earlier using a smoke grenade, it sounds like, but then forced back into the cabin. the big question out there that san bernardino county officials are not able to answer at the moment is is he still alive? they said that they had much of the cabin cordoned off around it. they had choppers overhead. but they could not be 100% sure that he didn't escape into the immediate area around that cabin, into another cabin nearby or somewhere else or if he's still in that cabin. they're basically going to wait for that cabin to completely

burn to the ground, then go in, see if they can find him, have the area completely surrounded. but we have perhaps 10, 15 minutes of light. they want to wrap this up before the sun goes down and the advantage then, if he is free and if it is christopher dorner, which it certainly sounds like it is, that he would then have the advantage. anderson? >> i should point out one firefighter source i've been communicating with who has been watching these images, just from their experience says there's nobody who was inside that building throughout that fire could survive that fire even if they had a gas mask given the size of the fire they're witnessing. >> impossible. >> that's just an opinion, but it does seem very difficult that somebody would still be inside that, whether they were in the basement or on the ground floor would be able to survive. andrew blanksteen is a reporter from "the l.a. times." he joins me now. your papers has had a lot of details about what has occurred over the last several hour. fill us in on some of the gaps

of what we know. according to your reporting that i initially read, the suspect had attempted to escape through the rear of this cabin, is that correct? >> there was talk of that. there was radio traffic about an open door and footprints. there were definitely two gunfights. the one in the cabin obviously is the one that people were focusing on, the sheriff's deputies who one killed and one wounded. but we don't know -- because there were rumors that at one point during the afternoon he had escaped entirely. but throughout the afternoon, my sources were saying, no, he's in there. then late in the afternoon, as you saw from the smoke and flames that there was a tactical operation that was under way, but obviously until you get close enough to something like that, you're not going to be

able to say for sure. you're going to see a lot of report of people saying absol e absolutely he's dead. nobody could survive. until they go in there and have an official confirmation either through dna or some other thing visually, they're probably not going to say officially. >> sure. are you -- have you gotten any information conclusively on what started this fire? we've had a number of law enforcement folks say, you know, it could be an incendiary device, the tear gas itself which ignited a wooden structure, a flash bang grenade or something else. do you have any other nfg on th -- information on that? >> we're hearing from source that it was tear gas. we did a story about a suspect that shot and killed a los angeles sheriff's deputy then holed up in a wooden shed. they fired gas into that temperature which caught on fire

ultimately killing the suspect. we did the story of the difference between what's called hot gas and cold gas. hot tear gas is basically something that ignites. you want to get them presumably out of the structure or it's going to burn. we don't know precisely what type of tear gas was fired. all we know is that it was fired. but something that catch on fire that quickly and you noted it was a wooden structure, it would burn quickly. as your ges were saying, it is hard to imagine someone surviving something hike that. >> i want to bring in randi kaye who has more nfg information on game and wildlife deputies who were on the road block and there was shooting between them. what are you hearing? >> from what we understand, anderson, the sheriff's deputies were hunting for christopher dorner around 12:20 or so pacific time but 20 minute after that initial call went out that

it may have been dorner who had stolen the vehicle from the couple that had been tied up reported. fish and game had been on alert. a road block had been set up. one of those officers noticed a car matching that description and a man matching the description of dorner heading in the opposite direction that he was going along highway 38 there. as you know, he was spotted at highway 38 and glass road. once he noticed him, that's when he put out the alert, called for more deputies. what happened there was christopher dorner did not stop. he attempted to flee into the forest. hundred of rounds of gunfire were used to try and stop him. he ended up holing himself up inside that cabin. luckily none of those fish and game officers in hot pursuit of him was injured. it was two of the other deputies. >> tom fuentes for the fbi is joining us as well. i know you've been working your

sources. at this point what is going through your mind? the key question is where is christopher dorner? is he still in that structure? has he been taken out of that structure, alive, dead, wounded? what other questions do you want to answer? >> the worst case scenario that runs through my mind which i hope turn out to be ridiculous is that he somehow did escape. that he managed to find a weak point in the line of officers that had him surrounded and ran off into the woods. now, i don't think that police believe that, that's what happened because i think right now you would see hundreds of officers in the woods right now that the manhunt would be back on to try to locate him if they believe that he made it through the line and escaped. i think the report from the marshals that he tried to escape but went back inside the cabin, i know the term "pushed back"

was used, but i don't believe he meant by hand. gunfire maybe caused him to retreat to the cabin. possibly he was wounded. if the police returned fire as he was going for the cabin, that he may have received a mortal wound as he was entering the cabin and is now still inside there. that we'll know later. but it sure seems like the police believe he's in there. they don't want to confirm it. they can't. they haven't seen his body and pulled his remains out. they are not going to be able to get near it for some time because of the heat and the flames and the danger that something else inside will explode. they'll sit and watch that cabin all night and hope that maybe by tomorrow the embers are cooled and they can make an entry into there and start their forensic work, look for the body. >> i want to give all of our viewers, obviously, the

president will be making his state of the union address tonight. we'll bring that to you at 9:00 eastern time when the president's speech is anticipated beginning. you're looking at a live shot of the white house. the president is about to leave any moment now for capitol hill. you just saw his limousine there in the previous shot. you are looking at the ek xit h will be using. we'll continue coverage of this ongoing law enforcement situation in california up until probably about a quarter to 9:00, then our political coverage is going to take it over. we'll give you updates obviously throughout this evening. but we want to continue focusing right now on this image that you're seeing of this cabin, the cabin owned by the martin family. this is not a live shot. this is a cabin owned by the martin family which mrs. martin was actually watching television, according to her son kyle -- there you see the president and first lady. >> how are you? good.

>> he replied to a reporter he feels great. how you are? then he heads to capitol hill for his first state of the union in his second term. we have our full political panel obviously assembled to bring you a lot of thoughts on what the president is going to be saying tonight, what kind of a tone he is going to strike. but as we watch them pull out from the white house, that political coverage will begin probably in about 10 or 15 minutes. we anticipate the speech starting around 9:00. we'll have full political coverage after the speech as well with as many updates as we can of this swituation in california. wolf blitzer is standing by along with all our political team that we've asem beld here in washington. it was several hours ago when this incident in california really began anew.

it had been several days since any word or action had been seen from the suspect, christopher dorner. the belief had been -- and according to "the l.a. times," to sources there, it seems to have been confirmed that at least for several days he has been holed up in a cabin, not the cabin you see on fire right now, but in a different cabin where he allegedly had taken a couple hostage, was holding them hostage for several days while he basically regrouped and was laying low. there was a massive manhunt, a manhunt hampered by the bad weather system that had moved into the big wear arbear area mt difficult for authorities to track him and to get air assets up into the sky. they had air assets, they had choppers ready with heat-seeking devices but because of weather they weren't able to get those up in the air.

now it's believed the suspect was laying low in somebody's house. whether he moved from one house to another, we simply don't know. but at this point the early information was he had taken one couple hostage. he stole a vehicle, then the seri series of events that we have seen play out over the next several hour. it's been a very fast paced kinetic activity, gunfire at this roadblock and at the cabin you see now. it is getting dark. that had been a concern for law enforcement. tom fuentes is joining us. from a law enforcement standpoint, the darkness was a concern all along. it would seem once they realized that there were not hostages inside, as we believe there were not, although that's not been confirmed, because the cabin was said to be empty when christopher dorner went in, it would seem as if the darken was

a real concern. law enforcement wanted to try to move in as quickly as possible before darken fell. chris voss is a former hostage negotiator. do you think that's fair that darkness was a concern here? >> the main concern in terms of darkness is whether they've got their inner perimeter established. they're more concerned about getting that. it's tougher when it's dark. that's the real concern. if they establish their perimeter they're prepared to deal with the darkness. they've got counterterrorism training. they can handle that but it was making sure their perimeters are established. >> we also have kyle martin. does it seem to you that the entire cabin is on fire? >> yeah, from what i can see right here, actually looks like maybe the barn is, too. there's a barn ten feet away from it. i can't quite tell, though. >> but it seems like the entire

structure is in flames or has been. >> yeah, yeah. >> how big a structure is this, kyle? >> it's about 1800 square feet, i'd say. >> 1800 square feet. it's a one-level structure, then there's a basement foundation underneath? >> yeah, and an attic. >> an attic able to stand up in? >> just a small attic. it's all sad, but this is material stuff. i feel bad for people who have lost loved ones and whatnot. >> sure. tom fuentes formerly with the fbi is also joining us. we were talking to chris about the coming darkness. how big of a concern would that have been for the tactical units on site? >> obviously the concern that he could try to get out of there and run into the woods in the dark, although the police would certainly have night vision equipment.

they would have aircraft with infrared ability to try to maintain surveillance coverage from the air. but it's always better even with night vision. it gives you tunnel vision and gives you a headache. you won't want to sit there for ten hours and look through that equipment. obviously better in daylight to try to deal with this and see what they have, what they can do about it. but in this situation, i think they're just going to have to maintain their perimeter, their inner perimeter which is very tightly placed around that cabin even though it's in flames. just in case somehow by a miracle he figured out a way to survive it. but they'll have to maintain that perimeter and wait for the flame to go down and wait for the fire to really be burned out before they can go in to there. it could be a propane tank waiting there to explode or maybe the ammunition that he brought in there with him.

they just don't know. they can't do any serious work inside that cabin right now with the flames the way they are. >> chris voss, a former fbi negotiator. when you have a situation where a suspect has allegedly killed a number of people, killed law enforcement personnel both today and previously, a riverside county deputy as well as the daughter of a former lapd officer and her fiance. when you have a suspect who's killed law enforcement and civilians as well, how much of an effort to do you make to open up a dialogue with that person. according to the martin family which owns this, there was no internet, no phone service, no television. how much of an effort to they make to open up a dialogue when you have somebody surrounded? >> the dialogue can be designed to support the tactical efforts. the vast majority of these situations are actually resolved with a combination of negotiations and tactics.

negotiations can gather information. if the suspect is willing to talk, can give you information as well as information to get him to surrender. the dialogue makes the overall law enforcement effort three-dimensional in terms of protecting life and not subjecting any law enforcement officer to unnecessary risk. >> i've just been given a word according to authorities they're now clearing the road for fire fighting equipment to be able to get up to this location. tom fuentes, what does that tell you? >> i think they're pretty confident that the danger is over and it will be safe for them to approach that cabin and try to extinguish the fire and hopefully let them get in and be looking at what's inside before too much longer, try to resolve this and for the peace of mind of the community there to let everybody know that the situation is safe and over and

that he's no longer a threat. i think that would be the biggie conce -- biggest concern. back to chris voss, the police in this situation would want him to surrender. they know there are communities out there that may think the police will execute him on sight because he's killed police officers and police family members, and that's not the case. also they would want to know all of the things that he's done in the last week. he's been on the loose. where else has he been. if there was any way to get information from him about what they're going to be trying to investigate now without him, that would have been helpful to the police. but i think they would have preferred to bring him back, have him stand trial and hopefully maybe obtain some information from him about what he's been up to for about a week. >> tom, let me ask you about that. there are a number of people who have been tweeting, paying attention to this, who, though,

certainly not approving of any methods and the murder that this man has allegedly perpetrated repeated times, not just against law enforcement personnel but against civilians as well, will say that when a police officer has been killed their belief would be that the police want to exact vengeance on this person. you say that's not the case. >> no, that's not the case. absolutely not the case. the police at all times in all the police departments, not just southern california, but everywhere, need and work hard at obtaining the support of all of the community that they serve. that includes the minority communities. they do not want to have a situation where it appears that they executed somebody especially when the subject already made claims that what happened to him is based on racism. they don't want to give an opportunity to reinforce that possible reason that that's why he was fired from the police, that's why his service to the navy was ended, that's why his life has been ruined is for

racist reasons and not because of anything wrong with him. so they don't want to reinforce what he put out, the delusional statements that he made in his manifesto. they want to say, we want to capture him alive, give him every opportunity to end this peacefully and surrender with no further loss of life, including his own. >> we should point out we're now showing you taped images. it has gotten too dark to actually see much of anything that's going on. the last report we have minutes ago is they're clearing the roads to allow fire fighting equipment to come up and actually put out that fire, but again darkness has come. it is very difficult to see exactly what is going on. the fire does still seem to be burning, but these are taped images taken from earlier in the day kyle martin whose mom owns this cabin. have you, has your mom talked to law enforcement about what happens now, about what was in

this cabin? i guess we don't have kyle -- we don't have kyle. we'll try to get him in a little bit. tom fuentes, the fact that fire fighting equipment now seems to be allowed to move into this area sh th area, that tells you they seem to be secure of this situation. it tells you they believe they have some sort of a fix of the location, the whereabouts, the condition that the suspect is in? >> that's correct, anderson. you know, it ap a police officer's duty to be there to contain the situation, man the perimeter, make sure that the threat to the community has ended. that's not part of the mission statement for firefighters. they're not normally going to be put in a situation that puts them in the kind of danger where they might get shot. you have enough danger dealing

with fires and the challenges of that type of occupation, but they're not going to let that fire department truck go anywhere near that location if they're not pretty confident that the danger is over at least from him shooting at them. now there's always danger when firefighters approach a burning facility that there's hazardous material inside which could endanger them or could explode or poisonous gases or any of those type of things. firefighters face that danger every day. but they don't face or shouldn't face, let's say, every day being shot at and potentially killed that way. so for the police to say, okay, bring that truck up here, bring the fire department personnel in here, that tells them that they're pretty confident that he won't be shooting at the firemen. >> miguel marquez is on the scene. if you can give us a lay of the land where you are in relationship to this cabin and the road blocks that we've been seeing, what is going on right

now? >> we're about ten miles south of the cabin. if you look into the valley, you can see the smoke that's burning. they just opened the road partway up to some of the neighborhoods below that cabin. so it's clear that things are starting to loosen up here. the fact that the fire department is going in. it is very clear that authorities talking to us earlier believe that whoever was in that cabin didn't get out, but they can't be 100% sure. they're not 100% sure it's christopher dorner, although everything they have leads them to believe it is. this entire area, this massive area east of los angeles has been on lockdown and quite concerned for some days now over mr. dorner. schools have been disrupted. life has been disrupted. but finally it seems that this may be coming to a slow and painful end just like the story it was, as it unfolded last week. >> miguel, just so we're absolutely accurate -- and again

we may not know this information. are you hearing they believe that suspect is still in that structure? you haven't heard anything that would indicate that they've removed him from that structure either alive, dead or wounded? >> no. from what i understand, whoever was in there was still in there. there was some possibility according to officials here that we spoke to that he could have gotten out. they couldn't say 100% certainty he was still that structure. but officials both here up on the mountain and around the country, it seems that whoever was in that structure had tried to escape, was forced back in, was able to get out -- >> excuse me, miguel. let's listen to the mayor of los angeles. >> first of all, i want to say on behalf of the people of los

angeles, our hearts and prayers are with the san bernardino deputy who was shot and killed tod today. our prayers are with their family, with the people of san bernardino, where the sheriff's department of that county. i want to thank them for their bravery. i want to thank all of the law enforcement professionals who have day and night tried to bring christopher dorner to justice. obviously, i'm not going to comment on what most of you have seen, as i have, because i'm not in a position to do that. that's for the representatives of the san bernardino sheriff's department. i also want to say something about the men and women and their families who were

targeted. i've called a number of them over the last few days to tell them that our hearts and prayers are with them. none of us can imagine what they've had to go through, what their children have had to go through because of the threats of christopher dorner, and i just want to thank the member of the los angeles police department who put their live on the line every single day. thank you very much. just, we're live. just i'll say now in spanish -- >> been listen to los angeles mayor antonio villaraigosa just expressing his condolences to the family of the san bernardino deputy who lost his life. another deputy is in surgery and

expected to be okay. there's a lot going on tonight. obviously, a very -- still -- fast moving situation. but you heard from miguel marquez perhaps the headline of the last few minutes whoever the suspect was in there, and all indications were it was christopher dorner. that has not been independently confirmed and officials aren't saying. but whoever was in that structure is believed still in that structure, was not taken out of that structure alive, dead or wounded. and it is hard to believe that anybody could survive that fire inside that structure. firefighting equipment is en route to try to put out the flames which again is another indication that authorities are relatively confident that the situation is secure enough. we'll be back at midnight eastern with a special edition of 360. our live coverage of this breaks news continues on hln. cnn's state of the union coverage starts right now with wolf blitzer.

this is cnn breaking news. >> we want to welcome in our viewers in the united states and around the world. we're continuing to monitor the breaking news out of southern california. we've been following a standoff, a shoot-out with a fired police officer, an accused killer christopher dorner. we'll bring you the new details as they happen. stand by for that. but right now we're getting closer and closer to the president's state of the union address. he makes his big entrance just a little bit after the top of the hour. takes that familiar walk through the house chamber shaking hands along the way. we'll bring you his speech live along with the republican response by senator marco rubio of florida. first, let's go to capitol hill. cnn anchor jake tapper. set the scene. >> we're watching members of the house and senate mingling as they prepare for president obama to come into the house chamber. we're expecting the president to

focus like a laser, his aides say, on the middle class and the economy, growing the economy through the middle class, however we also learned that the president this evening will announce that at this time in one year, 34,000 u.s. troops currently in afghanistan will be back here in the united states. dana bash, our chief congressional correspondent, is inside the chamber. she just had a moment with a vip who was there, who is the guest of republican senator john mccain of arizona, and the democratic house member that succeeded congresswoman gabby giffords. what can you tell us about that encounter with former congresswoman giffords? >> she and her husband commander mark kelly are sitting three rows behind us. literally as you were coming to me, she was waving. she seems to be excited to be here. the reason she is here is because of her to try to get her former colleagues who are milling around here waiting to

hear from the president, to agree to some new form of gun control. so it certainly is an eerie moment i have to say because it was a year ago when she was down on the floor and being helped up by her colleagues as a member. now she's up in the chamber trying to lobby her colleagues to try to stop gunmen from doing what they did to her. . in the chamber, there are many families, survivors of the sandy hook newtown massacre. those are the ribbons that are for memorializing the victims of sandy. wolf blitzer is monitoring it all. >> let's get the latest on what's going on right now as far as the president of the united states is concerned, jessica yellin is standing by. we've got a preview of what the president's going to tell the nation. >> that's right. the president, as jake says,

will drive an aggressive message on the economy. his fourth pivot back to jobs in the last three years taking tough lines with the republicans on both debt and taxes. sources tell me he'll spend significantly less time on foreign policy and he will hit some policy notes that will strike emotional chords among his supporters. he'll outline a commission to talk about voting rights, setting standards to make voting access easier especially for urban and minority voters who struggled this last election and legislation that will give women greater access to equal pay supporting that message he hit in the inaugural. sasha and malia won't be there tonight, they don't really go out on school night. >> you see john boehner along with joe biden, the vice president, also the president of the senate. we've got analysis and contributors who will be

dissecting the president's words. >> strong minds and big voices with us tonight. let's start with former michigan governor jennifer granholm and newt gingrich. the easy one. what is the state of the union, governor? >> the state of the union is progressing. he's going to say he's going to be right on the economy. i want to count the number of times he says middle class and jobs. if we don't talk about the economy after this speech, then he will have missed the boat. >> do you agree, mr. speaker? >> the governor's right that the country is worried first about jobs, second about the long-term economy and third about the size of the deficit. and the country's going to look for comments on those three. that will be the heart of how the nation judges this speech. >> if he has to say the nation is progressing and if he has to prove that he can make jobs, that's a very tall order. let's put that to gloria borger. i'll start with you. often politics is about playing

scared. he doesn't want to lose tonight. >> he's not scared. this is a different president from the one we saw in the last inaugural. he's won -- i mean, in the last state of the union. he's won re-election, he feels he can get a lot done, he feels like he has the upper hand over the republicans there. he feels this is his moment. they don't think they're being overambitious, but the tone they want to set is, i'm going to reach out to you, but you know what? you need to reach out to me. >> so as we sit here, we see that more and more people are coming in. we saw the vice president's wife there. others are starting to come in. gloria smacked my assertion aside. often with politics, you don't want to lose. so what is the line tonight for the president so he must do that so he's not seen as failing? >> he has to avoid being boring. if he goes on and labored in a sense we've heard this before, that's a danger for him. this is an opportunity, too.

good presidents have gone in -- bill clinton especially took advantage of the state of the union. newt will remember this. he had his popularity go up 10%. in this speech, president obama is not trying to lift his own ratings. he's trying to mobilize his base, just as he did with the inaugural. >> mobilizing his base because he knows he can't change minds on the other side. that's one of the problem. the state of america is still anxious about the state of the recovery. is it fragile? will we tilt back into recession? the first state of the union of his second term, it's still divided. can the president change any mind ps on the other side? probably not which is why you gin up your own base. >> an issue that does not seem to be central at the time, witness what we saw in california. this subject allegedly christopher dorner and what that means in this manhunt. an issue like that and you have the kids from sandy hook and their families in the audience

tonight, does it make that issue come into the gun violence? >> i think violence is something all americans are worried about. all the specific example you're using tonight of a former los angeles police officer, nothing proposed would have changed that. he would have passed any identity check. i'm glad to see mental health is much more on the table than it was a year ago. i'm glad to see gangs are being looked at. 80% of the killings in chicago are gangs. but i do think something may move this year. and there is a desire on both sides of the aisle to find something which combines mental health, gangs and i think better identification checks. >> chief justice of the supreme court coming down right now. the entire supreme court will be in attendance tonight. justice kennedy, breyer, all coming down tonight. that's why they have their robes on. to build on this point, when an issue reaches a flashpoint, y